Let that title sink in for a moment, process it.
You mad? You shocked? Or are you nodding your head in agreement? Yeah, I thought so.
Let me be perfectly clear on what I'm about to say, because the ability to misconstrue this message will be easy to do. Peyton Manning is the best quarterback in the game of football today, no question. Peyton Manning is ONE of the greatest quarterbacks of all-time, no question.
However, I will not sit here and let the media, other pundits of the game of football, and bandwagon, "oh, I only watch the Super Bowl" football fans sit here and preach this gospel that Peyton Manning plays the game of football like no one ever before in history, and that he is the greatest quarterback of all-time. It is disrespectful to others who have played the game before him, and we cannot let our present day memory erase things we've seen and/or heard in the past.
Reason #1: The man, along with his team, is reminiscent of the Atlanta Braves.
14-2, 12-4, 13-3, 12-4, 14-2, 12-4, 12-4, 10-6, 6-10, 10-6, 13-3.
That's the record of the Indianapolis Colts each season since 1999; since the ascension of Peyton Manning as an elite QB. Truly an awesome display of winning regular season football games. The Atlanta Braves in baseball won 14 straight division titles in the National League East. Very similar right?
How many championships to the two teams have? One apiece.
Now, I'm not that stupid. I know that you cannot force all of the blame on Peyton for not winning more championships, but I feel like at Ed The Sports Fan I can keep it 100 with you all. Peyton Manning and the Colts got the easiest game for a Super Bowl that I've ever seen in Super 39 against the Bears. Manning throughout his career has struggled MIGHTILY in the playoffs. He's never been able to beat San Diego in the postseason, and for the simple fact that Norv Turner put in possibly the worst game plan against the Jets makes me infuriated. It took 3 tries to finally get over the Patriots hump, with the 38-34 battle AFC Championship game in '06 going down as one of the greatest games of all-time.
You don't want to be like the Atlanta Braves, trust me I'm a fan of ATL, so the feeling is (Charles Barkley voice) turrible.
Reason #2: He's not even the best QB of his generation.
Tom Brady, 3 rings. Peyton Manning 1 ring. Pretty simple, right?
"Oh well, no. Peyton's been successful statistically longer than Brady. He's just better."
Shut up.
Here are some all-time stats to compare.
Single-Season Passing TDs: #1. T. Brady, 50 ('07) #2. P. Manning, 49 ('04)
Single-Season Passer Rating: #1. P. Manning, 121.1 ('04) #2. T. Brady, 117.2 ('07)
Single-Season Passing Yards: #4. T. Brady , 4,806 ('07) #16. P. Manning, 4,557 ('04)
Career Pass Comp %: #4. P. Manning, 64.8% #9. T. Brady 63.3%
Career Yards/Game: #1. P. Manning, 261.1 #7. T. Brady 239.1
Interceptions: P. Manning 181 in 12 seasons (15/year), T. Brady 99 in 10 seasons (10/year)
Playoff Record: Patriots are 2-1 over the Colts in the playoffs.
Oh, and as a reminder.
REPEAT: Tom Brady, 3 rings. Peyton Manning 1 ring. Pretty simple, right?
Reason #3: Peyton Manning isn't the best all-time quarterback of his own franchise.
That, my friends, would be Johnny Unitas.
Football is different than other sports, where time can adjust the progression of a sport so that the game can progress. In baseball, dimensions of a baseball field have shrunk. Baseball bats have improved, and they have this stuff called HGH...yeah. In basketball, the evolution of athletes and an "above-the-rim" style of play, plus the advent of defensive restrictions have made offense easier in basketball. In football? They would kick people out of the league on the defensive side of the ball if folks did in games what they did back in the 1960's.
Think about it, you could clothesline, jam receivers all the way down the field, and pass interference was only called if someone got mauled while attempting to catch the ball. Mind you also that Unitas was the preeminent quarterback in his day, called all of his own plays, and played in cleats that nowadays would resemble something along the lines of Chuck Taylor's with spikes on the bottom. Peyton Manning's game is a direct mirror image of Unitas, and Unitas was the original holder of all the records. Take into the account that teams initially only played in 12, then 14-game seasons and you realize how handicapped statistically he is.
Then there is one other important factor in this.
Johnny Unitas - 3 NFL Championships (1 Super Bowl)
Peyton Manning - 1 NFL Championship (1 Super Bowl)
You pay homage to the legends and respect your elders for a reason, and it applies in the same manner here. Unitas > Manning
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So what am I saying here on the precipice of Super Bowl 44 in Miami as the Indianapolis Colts face the New Orleans Saints? Peyton Manning has the chance to make history on Sunday night.
However, its not for the title of best quarterback of all-time. Of course, its not something that he's pushing for, but if you listen to the media this is what's on the line. Right now Peyton Manning is just above Dan Marino for greatest quarterbacks in NFL history. Dan Marino's run as a quarterback is parallel to Manning's minus a Super Bowl, even though some will argue to this day that Marino is THE BEST quarterback of all-time, rings or not. Peyton still has time to ascend, his career isn't up any time soon, the problem is you can't crown the man until he's earned the crown. Where is Denny Green...
There's still an upper echelon of all-time great QBs that he has to get up to. Unitas, Bradshaw, Elway, Montana, Favre, and Tom Brady. With a win Sunday he leaves the Aikman, Steve Young, Kurt Warner, Phil Simms pack and moves into the elite, but if he doesn't win...then he elevates his opponent, Drew Brees, into the same tier of QBs with him. Will that happen? Well, we've got two days left to find out.
-Ed.
www.edthesportsfan.com
(Ed's pick to win Super Bowl 44: Heart says Saints, Mind says Colts. Colts 30, Saints 20.)
Xshot!\
MacSpeech
Comments
11 Responses to "Win or Lose...Peyton Manning Is NOT The Greatest QB of All-Time"This right here "There's still an upper echelon of all-time great QBs that he has to get up to. Unitas, Bradshaw, Elway, Montana, Favre, and Tom Brady. "
Since when did Favre and Elway hit all time great status? Lorenzo still has as many rings as Peyton, 1. The only names I'll even concede are Unitas and (partially) Montana. Young kinda kills Montana's bonafides.
I respect everyone else's game but not sure if they hit that upper echelon yet. I mean I would throw Warren Moon up there before Bradshaw even with Moon having no rings. Moon would own every passing record in existence if GMs had had the foresight to draft him, and he did it with run-and-shoot which means he had no real blitz protection.
Then this right here. "Drew Brees, into the same tier of QBs with him." will get you in trouble.
Brees is elite but I don't think he's on Peyton's level. I feel like Peyton is the Kobe of football. Each are consumed by their respective sport. You don't see either out and kickin it in the off season. All bidness all the time.
I'm onboard with a lot of what you say here, but I don't think you can simply put up number of championships as the deciding factor. For instance, just because Warner and Peyton each won one, they are on equal plains? Sorry, but Peyton is ahead of Warner in my book. Aikman too. Just by watching them and seeing what they do and had to do. Peyton has had more responsibility in his era than any other QB, calling his own plays, running no-huddle, all that stuff.
Though I do agree he's behind Brady all time, slightly, and he's definitely not vaulting past Montana, Elway, Unitas right now.
Oh, and by the way … how many rings does Brett Favre have? I believe that's one. So you kind of go against your own argument there when you say Peyton isn't on the same level as Favre. How? He's approaching all those marks Favre set, and if memory serves me correctly, Favre hasn't exactly lit the world on fire in the playoffs either. In fact, you can remember plenty of times he's ended his season with an interception. All I'm saying is, he's been to two Super Bowls and won one. Peyton now has been to two and is 1-for-1 thus far, with a chance to go for his second. Definitely on equal plain with Favre. Definitely.
I hope the Saints win.
Forgot this part, overall, I have to agree win or lose Peyton is not the greatest of all time. If forced to choose, I would prolly go with Unitas or Marino.
Agree with Stank. Peyton isnt the best QB of all time and wont ever be unless he's able to become the best of his era. Tom Brady is still in that argument. I have NO idea why you think Brees isnt already elite. Did you leave Roethelisberger off on purpose? I think his game-winning drive at the end of the last Super Bowl enters him in at least the 2nd tier.
Also, Kurt Warner BELONGS in that top tier.
Prediction: My heart says the Saints will crush the Colts and turn this into a laugher by halftime. My head says they only win by 10.
I think if Peyton aka "the sheriff" wins on Sunday he will be the greatest QB of this era. I think Tom Brady claim as greatest QB of this era is bogus New England won all their Super Bowl by three points on the strength of their kicker Adam Vinteri. He also had his record breaking season ended by the Giants in the Super Bowl. Its hard to give him that title as G.O.A.T because he played in a era different from Elway, Marino, Joe Cool, and Bradshaw. But i will give him the title as smartest QB of all time just based on how he picks apart different defenses each year. Cant wait to see the game on Sunday.
Kick-ass article although I am one of the blind praisers of the Peyton experience I feel you on Unitas 100% - love the analogy of Chuck Taylors with spikes. I think with Peyton the reason that people latch on so fast and want to give him that title is 100% based on swagger. Dude has a swagger and a poise on the field that convinces casual football fans that he is the man. Not many QBs have that, not even golden boy Brady, so I think we will hear him being called the greatest up until he retires, regardless of the ring count and hardcore stats.
The one thing that I want Peyton winning more-so than getting closer to earning that stupid "goat" title (that commentators love so much) is to finally calm down the Favre fiasco. Maybe if Peyton gets ring #2 it will be a Peyton/Brady meme going instead of the old man thing again, it got soooo OLD this year hearing about the man and that damn "Favre cam".
If you ask Peyton he would beg differently though, nobody wants the analysts and commentators on their nuts for a whole season because they set the bar way too high for any human being to live up to. Just ask Favre. SMH - Go Colts!
How do you have Bradshaw as the top tier of all time QBs? Damn near every person on that team was a Hall Of Famer. Bradshaw goes down a tier. How the hell is Favre in that tier, he has one ring too and can't finish when it matters.
JaMarcus Russell is offended his name wasn't mentioned.
Feel u brother and really like the article, but I gotta disagree. Sometimes the obvious answer just is the right answer.
Reason #1 - kinda agree with you here. Never thought about it but they may very well be the Braves. However, as that relates to the current matter of the greatest of all time, well...I'm not sure it does. Peyton easily has 5-6 solid years left. The team's legacy isn't quite wrapped up just yet.
Reason #2 - your quote about Peyton being statistically better for longer is true and the stats you chose didn't really disprove that. Take away Tom Brady's 2007 super season and take that statline away with is. Now, I know you just can't "take away" someone's stats like that but we're talking about the GOAT, and he isn't defined by one season. In a few years, this conversation, much like the LeBron v Kobe one (guess which side I'm on there), won't be relevant. Even if Peyton trends down from his ridiculous pace, he'll get the records for TDs and yards among others. Maybe a couple more years if Favre keeps ruining our lives with his presence. I'm not going to predict more Super Bowls but that's not out of the question. 3 rings vs 1....it's not that simple.
Reason #3 - Comparing eras like this is tricky business. Sure the defenses were dirty but at the same time, no d-lineman then ran a 4.5 40. Unitas played against thugs, Peyton plays against the greatest athletes known to man. I'll call that a scratch. As for stats, yes Johnny U averaged about 13 games/year. So he played about 81% of the games that Peyton played per season. Let's observe 81% of Peyton's stats:
Unitas - 40,239 yds, Manning(adjusted) - 40,500
Unitas - 290 TDs, Manning(adjusted) - 296
Unitas - 78.2 rating, Manning - 95.2
*Note - I hate QB rating.
Unitas - 253 INT, Manning(adjusted) - 147
I could go on here, but my point is proven.
Finally, how the heck is Terry Bradshaw in the upper echelon of QBs?!?!? We must only be looking at rings here. TB was the Trent Dilfer of the 70's Steelers teams. 51.9% compl, 27,900 yds in 13 seasons, 1:1 TD/INT ratio, 70.9 rating....this guy's name doesn't belong on this webpage.
Peyton wins he goes in with Elway, Jim Kelly, Brett Farve and Dan Marino. Great teams, just either win against soft teams or choke when competition comes.
Peyton would be second best in both Generation (Brady hands down) and franchise (Johnny U. That dude could play).
Enjoyed the read. You covered all the bases in this particular piece, as well as any article I've read which respectfully rebukes the notion that Peyton Manning is the greatest QB to ever play the game.
When I hear anyone say this (with a straight face, at that), it leaves me saddened. Being a football fan I always imagined that pro football would remain sacred towards the quick fast in a hurry microwaved society of today. Baseball and basketball, in so many ways, have fallen victim to this, but football had always been about hard work, imho.
Manning is a great QB, exactly, one of the greatest ever, though hardly THE greatest.
Well said.
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